E&OE TRANSCRIPT
TELEVISION INTERVIEW
ABC NEWS WEEKEND BREAKFAST WITH DAN BOURCHIER AND FAUZIAH IBRAHIM
SATURDAY, 26 MAY 2018
SUBJECT: By-elections, women in parliament, tax cuts,China/Australia ties,
FAUZIAH IBRAHIM, PRESENTER: Saturday, 28 July has been picked as the date for the five federal by-elections. The Speaker set the date citing the Electoral Commission's advice that it would avoid school holidays and give it enough time to put new citizenship checks in place.
DAN BOURCHIER, PRESENTER: But Labor's angry that it's nine weeks away and also clashes with its national conference. The government says the Opposition MPs who were dual citizens should have resigned earlier to prevent a delay. To discuss this, and more, we are talking with Liberal MP Craig Kelly and Labor MP Pat Conroy. Good morning to you both. Pat, where do you start with this?
PAT CONROY: I think the decision on timing was a complete stitch-up. To have the government hide behind the advice from the Electoral Commission is rubbish. We had estimates testimony from the AEC their original advice did not include 28 July as the preferred date.
BOURCHIER: But the letter they gave to parliament?
CONROY: Their second letter did but they admitted their original draft correspondence did not have July 28 as the date. Clearly someone in the government has applied undue and unfair pressure to the AEC and have made that organisation partisan. It is a rubbish argument about school holidays. The Bennelong by-election was held in the school holidays. If it was good enough then, why isn't it good enough now? This is all about the government trying to wring a petty political advantage rendering discomfort on their opponents and it's student politics tricks and It treats the electors of Longman and Braddon and other seats like mugs.
IBRAHIM: Now 4 out of 5 seats belong to Labor. Two of them are very crucial, is Bill Shorten's leadership on the line here?
CONROY: Not at all. I think Malcolm Turnbull's leadership is on the line because these by-elections will be a referendum on a very unfair budget and I'm really excited to be helping Susan Lamb and Justine Keay in those two hard seats, communicating about why this is a dog of a budget that hurts low and middle income families in their electorates versus Labor's alternative of higher services, more tax cuts for low and middle income earners and paying down debt and deficit faster. So I'm excited because this is a true choice for the Australian people in those seats.
BOURCHIER: Well, Craig Kelly, I wonder, is this a referendum on the Prime Minister?
CRAIG KELLY: Pat is basically slandering the Electoral Commission there. They clearly gave advice and for the Labor Party to be whinging about the date of the by-election when they are the ones that completely stuffed up. They gave us a rolled gold guarantee that all their members were correct. They should have gone to the by-election back when Barnaby Joyce did or when John Alexander did and this problem wouldn't be happening. The electoral commission have given their advice. The Speaker is acting on their advice. For the Labor Party to try and create some sort of story about this is because they are fearful they may lose only the second by-election by an Opposition in 100 years. That's what they are frightened of.
BOURCHIER: Not in Western Australia, though?
KELLY: Not in Western Australia but they are starting to try and make excuses in case they lose one of these by-elections because it would be a terrible commentary on Bill Shorten's leadership.
BOURCHIER: Did it need to be this far out? Nine weeks, and kicking it right down to date that falls on the same day as the major Labor gathering?
KELLY: I also think in the local rugby Southern Districts play Gordon on that same day. You can always find some excuse about why you could push it off. The reality is the Speaker took advice from the Electoral Commissioner They are putting new regulations in place because of issues of citizenship. The by-elections give Labor plenty of time so it should have absolutely no excuses whatsoever if they create history and lose one of these by-elections.
CONROY: That advice from the AEC was changed. They admitted in estimates, they changed the advice clearly from pressure from the government. As for this 'we should have resigned earlier', the AEC says they need more time to change their advice to candidates which implies that the High Court decision changed the interpretation of section 44. The Government can't have it both ways. This is a stitch-up from whoa to go. In the end, we will win those seats. We have a great policy offering but this is just petty politics along the path by a Liberal Government that's just doing anything it can to deface Australian politics.
IBRAHIM: Let's move away from the day and talk about the by-election itself. We've seen Malcolm Turnbull stand out and intervene at some point, do you think that was the right move?
KELLY: You mean intervene as far as the....
IBRAHIM: Ann Sudmarlis
KELLY: Preselection has to be open for everyone to challenge. That's the right process. That's the democratic way. But a sitting member is entitled to stand on their record and I'm sure the Labor Party have similar policies as well.
CONROY: It is remarkable Mr Turnbull had to intervene. Clearly Ms Sudmarlis lost the support of her own branch as well as the electorate of Gilmore.
So to have the intervention of the Prime Minister when her branch clearly thought she wasn't doing a good job reflects on Ann.
BOURCHIER: The Opposition Leader, though, has also intervened. We have seen reports about the Warren Snowden in the seat of Lingiari in the Northern Territory that while not at the same level, certainly Bill Shorten saying that he backs him after there was a factional change or a shift if you will.
CONROY: We haven't even opened preselection for Lingiari and Warren Snowden is a phenomenal MP. He has done a great job there.
BOURCHIER: But he was dumped by his faction.
CONROY: That was an internal argey bargey around a state conference. There is always plenty of colour and movement around state conferences. I don't think anyone is questioning Warren's legacy in Lingiari. I think he will be a really strong candidate if he chooses to go again.
BOURCHIER: This is something both leaders will do, they will weigh into the different preselection fights?
CONROY: Mr Shorten was positive about Warren Snowden's performance as an MP. There is a whole difference from having a Prime Minister heavy preselectors and factional brokers on the Liberal State Council to prop up Ann Sudmarlis who has been failing the people of Gilmore.
KELLY: Anne has done a great job down there in Gilmore.
CONROY: Then why are the branches trying to knock her off?
BOURCHIER: One at a time.
KELLY: Anne is an outstanding member. She has stood up and got a lot of ticks for that seat. Anne is a great member and great candidate at the next election that will hold a very tough seat.
CONROY: It is a pity her branch members didn't think so.
IBRAHIM: Well let me just ask a question to you Craig, and it's a question I asked Julie Bishop: Does the Liberal Party have a problem with women?
KELLY: I don't think so. We don't want to go down the quota way of the Labor Party but everyone acknowledges we need to give women a bit of a leg up to try and get them in federal politics. Federal politics is a tough road. There is a lot of travel involved. We see a lot more women in state politics in the Liberal Party because there is less travel. It is very hard for parents with young kids, with mothers looking after kids and that is just the reality of the world whether we like it or not.
IBRAHIM: Shouldn't fathers also step in and help out with the kids as well? You share out the duty then you'd have more women in parliament?
KELLY: I've been criticised for this but I think in many families, the young kids are closer to the mother than they are the father... This might seem a little bit old-fashioned...
IBRAHIM: I would think a lot of fathers watching this would disagree with that.
KELLY: In certain circumstances yes but in many cases I think for a mum to have to leave the kids...and I've spoken to many mothers on our side... that they have to pack up and they leave their kids on a Sunday night, and they leave them at home, and there is a bit of emotional heartbreak when they have that separation from their kids and I think that it is slightly easier for fathers to do.
CONROY: There is just so many wrong things in that Craig. I will start with quotas. Quotas absolutely work to change the culture of political parties. Labor introduced quotas some 20 years ago, now we are up to 48 per cent of Labor's caucus is female. We've got 40 per cent on the front bench who are female, many with young kids. Quotas work to change the culture and force old white blokes, or middle-aged white blokes like us, to actually give way in some parts and actually let women have a voice. They are half the population and they should be half the MPs in the parliament.
BOURCHIER: To pick up on Fauziah's point, the next round of pre-selection is already quite blistering. Lucy Gichuhi's future is quite uncertain. Jane Hume, who is considered to be a very good performer in Parliament and the media as well, and Jane Prentice, these are all sitting women who have been stepping out and speaking out. Should the Prime Minister have stepped in for them, like he did with Ann Sudmarlis?
KELLY: These things will play out over time. We also have an extending candidate in Mayo, Georgina Downer, who will add to our female ranks if she is successful down there. We lost a lot of very good women at the previous election. They went up to the public and unfortunately they lost their seats. The numbers will ebb and flow but ultimately you are right. Society is changing, I acknowledge that, and more and more women will come in but when you set quotas, you create the assumption some of those people are just there on a quota rather than their own ability. I'd rather see everyone get to parliament on their own ability like every single female that we have in Federal politics .
BOURCHIER: So no deals to get men in, in any of the seats then?
KELLY: Well where do you go then? Do you go to left handers? Do you go to people with blonde hair? Blue eyes? Where do you draw the line on quotas?
CONROY: There's the argument why you have 10-15% of women. Quotas work to give an equal say to women who get there on merit and they make a great contribution. You need to change the culture of your party, Craig.
BOURCHIER: That's a debate we'll keep having. We might move on to tax now The Prime Minister pointed to an article on the front page of The Australian that says, over the forwards - not the forward estimates but looking into the future at the end of this tax plan, the way the modelling is done, the medium income will be increased so a greater scope of Australians will benefit. What do you say to that Pat?
CONROY: Whoever came up with that is economically illiterate or being tricky. First off, they use average wage which inflates the figure because it's inflated by very high-income earners at the top, it excludes part-time workers and is based on this 3% compounding wage growth whereas wages are growing between 1 1/2 - 2%. Much better to use median income rather than average income which is the exact middle income in an area. The median income in my electorate is $47,000, not $83,000. Even in seven years' time, the median income in my electorate will be $53,000. Stage three of these tax cuts that cost $40 billion will be rewarding high-income earners at the expense of services and paying down the debt slower. This is not about helping lower and middle income families, this is about helping high-income families and you can distort the figures however you want, but someone on $200,000 a year is not a middle-income earner, they are a high-income earner - good luck to them - but we need to start with an accurate picture of what Australia is.
KELLY: Someone on $200,000 is in the top marginal tax rate. Where we have to avoid this argument is when we get into how we cut the pie up? The overall aim of the tax system is to grow the size of the economic pie. To create incentives in the system so we get a bigger pie. Then when we get a bigger pie we have more tax revenue to pay for all the things we need to in society. That's what this tax plan is about. It's not just about giving up the pie. This is why we have to get a competitive rate of corporate tax. We have seen Italy this week announce plans to reduce their corporate rate of tax from 30%, not to 25 but all the way down to 15. Almost every OECD country since the turn of this century, has reduced their corporate rate of tax because they know that incentivises growth and investment
and makes the pie bigger so you have more government revenue to spend.
IBRAHIM: I want to touch on the China-Australia relations. This week we saw Liberal MP Andrew Hastie use his privilege to make certain accusations against Dr Chau. He is a very powerful political donor. Talk to us about this privilege, and also, I'm interested in the timing. It came at a time when Trade Minister Steven Ciobo was in China trying to attract more trade.
CONROY: Absolutely, and there are reports this was a targeted hit on Foreign Minister Julie Bishop who has been associated with Mr Chau in the past, as I understand it from reports I've seen. Who knows what drove Mr Hastie - as deputy chair of the privileges committee I can just say that using parliamentary privilege is something we need to use very carefully. You need to be very confident what you're saying is factual and representative. This is a very significant intervention. It is undoubtedly true that the relationship with China under this government has been very fraught. We have had evidence of ministers being frozen out, even when going to events in China, the microphone suddenly being turned down for their speeches. All sorts of shenanigans are going on. I'm disappointed Mr Hastie didn't let the Prime Minister or Foreign Minister know he was going to make the speech. As to the actual substantive allegations, we have made it very clear we shouldn't be accepting foreign donations. We stopped accepting them years ago and we need to reform that in the Parliament and make a point that the Liberal Party is still accepting donations from foreign parties including Mr Chau, so it's quite concerning.
KELLY: Pat said "what was Andrew Hastie's motivation"? Andrew Hastie is a true patriot and a great Australian so there can be no questioning whatsoever to his motivation. He did that because he believed that was in the best interests of Australia.
IBRAHIM: I think the issue is the timing though, the timing when Julie Bishop was about to meet her Chinese counterpart. Steven Ciobo is in China trying to attract more trade. I'm questioning the timing. Was this to undermine this?
KELLY: Absolutely not. Andrew thought very carefully about this and Andrew will always put the interests of the Australian nation first. He is someone of the highest integrity that I have the greatest respect for.
IBRAHIM: Alright. We have to leave it there. Thank you for coming in and speaking to us,
Craig Kelly and Pat Conroy.
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